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Story of Hope: How Kathy got pregnant naturally at 44 after 5 losses

Learn EXACTLY what Kathy did: aimeeraupp.com/yes

See the Full Transcript Below:

Aimee Raupp:

We are live on Facebook. So, Kathy and I are catching up about what the stories of hope this week have done for us.

Kathy:

It’s a lot.

Aimee Raupp:

A lot. Hi, everyone. Coming live to you on a Sunday, and so honored to be here as always. This is yet another Story of Hope that we get to bring to you. And, Kathy joined us last year for our Story of Hope, and you were what? Six months pregnant I think with, Cole.

Kathy:

I think so.

Aimee Raupp:

Because he’s nine months now.

Kathy:

[crosstalk 00:00:42] about nine months.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. I just got to meet Cole and his big brother Rory, before we went live, that’s why we’re late, because we were catching up and putting lip gloss on, and stuff like that. It’s switching back and forth between the two of you, I think you have it on speaker rather than gallery. Oh, you are right. Okay. Let me just see. This is gallery now. How does this look, Beth? Is it says the gallery, but it doesn’t look right on my end. Let me see. Okay. Beth, is that look better? This is what it normally looks like to me, but talk Kathy, let’s see if it switches back and forth.

Kathy:

What do you think Beth? Is this okay. Hi, Beth.

Aimee Raupp:

So, we’re testing it Beth. Let me just see. You went to both, and then it switched back. There we go. Okay. So right now we’re good.

Kathy:

How about this, Beth?

Aimee Raupp:

I’m going to look. Yeah. How about this, Beth? I’m going to look on Facebook right now myself and see. We’re good now, she says.

Kathy:

Okay. Cool.

Aimee Raupp:

So, let’s see. Oh yeah, I see what she means. Okay. Yeah. Okay. We’re good now. All right. Hi, everyone. We are here. And so, as I was saying, Kathy and I were just catching up about what the Story of Hope have done for us this week, which it’s been pretty emotional, and awesome to just experience and see all the girls. And so, Kathy joined us last year to share her Story of Hope, and she was then pregnant with her now little guy who’s about nine months, and we’re going to share with you all her process. And then, I also think too, important, we were talking behind the scenes about this, but like, and where she’s at right now emotionally, and what the last week and seeing everybody else’s stories, because you were ahead of all those girls, but knew them well in the group, and what all those stories are bringing up for you too, which I think is just so important to talk about.

Aimee Raupp:

Because like I said last night with Alexandra of, it’s not like you get pregnant and all the pain of the previous… Whether you had miscarriages or you’ve just been trying for years, it doesn’t just disappear. And, that the work we do in the course, and in the community, and in the new momma group is really helpful for I think years to come. Not just the getting pregnant piece which, that the question I got today on Facebook, or on Instagram of like, “Well, what if I get pregnant? What if I join the course and I get pregnant the next month?” It was almost like, “Do I get a refund?” And it was like, “Well, no.” Because the work just begins even in the pregnancy. You know what I mean? And, all the transformations that take place, it’s a lifelong thing, right?

Kathy:

Yeah, absolutely. And, that’s the thing with fertility challenges is, a lot of times it’s treated as if it’s just contained to your uterus and ovaries. But, it really bleeds into every aspect of life. That’s why the eCourse was so helpful for me because it was a, or it is a total lifestyle overhaul, and it works for fertility. But, I was just telling Aimee, I’m like, “I am still basically doing all the things, and I did it throughout my pregnancy because that’s what I needed to get through my pregnancy.” And, after my baby came, I mean after you have a baby, it’s a challenging time. And then, COVID hit, and I feel like all of my coping mechanisms are everything that I learned from you, and learned from the eCourse, and then I still have the support, thankfully-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. Because we never kick you out. Someone else asked about that. Like, “Do you have lifetime access?” I was like, “You never get kicked out.” I expect women to graduate on to just the new momma group, and I’m always surprised of like, I’ll go live in the new momma group. I only do that once a month, and then I’ll hop into office hours in the eCourse group, and all my new mommas come into office hours, because you guys just love it. It’s like, “Oh, there’s Kathy again. She’s was just a new momma, and now she’s in the, Yes, You Can Get Pregnant eCourse.” And, if you guys watched the story with Alexandra last night, the Story of Hope there, Kathy was pivotal in that IVIG information. Do you remember when you shared that? I don’t know if you saw last night, but when you shared-

Kathy:

I didn’t [crosstalk 00:05:31].

Aimee Raupp:

… that article, because you’re talking about how… We’ll get to your story in a second. But, how Alexandra is like her third to fourth beta didn’t double, and it was 950 to 1500, and the doctors were like, “This isn’t going to work. This is going to now be your fifth loss, basically.” And, she was obviously devastated and scared, and she posted in the group. And, I think you had said something of like the IVIG. You mentioned something, and then you had shared an article. She couldn’t find it. I went and found the article that you shared about how the IVIG helped at that stage of a pregnancy. You found some research.

Aimee Raupp:

And then, between that article and Laura messaging her and supporting her, and they made some tweaks on their own, but I think at the discretion of seeing how other women were medicated. So basically, Alexandra increased her medication a little bit, her prednisone, she went from 15 to 20 milligrams, which you don’t do that without support, guys. I’m not saying to go and just medicate yourself. But, I really think those two things, her getting the IVIG based on… Because she wasn’t going to get it, and based on your article, I was like, “I really think you should get it. I know it’s an added cost, but I think you should do it.” And then, the prednisone, because it took the doctor 72 hours to get back to her, or something like that-

Kathy:

Yeah. Over the weekend.

Aimee Raupp:

… which was a really crucial time. And yeah, so you played such an intricate role in that too. I went through the emails with her last night. We were talking about that that moment in time, and I was like, I remember us emailing because she’s in Australia, and the time difference and all that. And, I had sent her, I was like, “If you didn’t see Kathy’s article, here’s the link.” I cut and pasted it in the email. And, she was like, “We’re going to do the IVIG. We decided to do it.” Yeah. You were so instrumental in that. And, just to think about, you were already at that point… Yeah. Because she got pregnant in November, you were just about to have Cole, you were literally just about to give birth. So, it was your experience and education is what then helped, I think her and Laura, and all those girls, but helped her catapult on to bring that little guy home.

Kathy:

Yeah. And, I remember that happening in real time, and that’s the thing, you’ve got this forum to go to, and then you’ve got all these people that have had a similar experience that can help and support you. That was amazing for me too, when I was-

Aimee Raupp:

So, tell us about your paths to Cole. How about that?

Kathy:

Yeah. It was a long and winding road. I can’t wait some day to be like, “Where were you? What took you so long?” But really, he came at the perfect time-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. There was just some things to work out, and he knew that.

Kathy:

Yeah. Exactly. So, I actually had to look back at a couple things today, because a lot of it… I’m not great with the years, and I think that’s because I couldn’t allow myself to-

Aimee Raupp:

It’s a lot of years.

Kathy:

Yeah. It was a lot of years, and I could allow myself to keep track of the years as I was going. But, I joined the eCourse in August 2017, but when I had gotten to the course, I had already been trying for years. And, I feel like I was really worn out, and I had already done a lot, and I had already pieced a lot together. A lot of research. I had seen experts. I had five consults with five different doctors, some of which totally refused to work with me based on either age, or-

Aimee Raupp:

Your AMH.

Kathy:

… AMH, FSH. Yeah-

Aimee Raupp:

You started trying for him at what age, 40 or 39?

Kathy:

Let’s see. I had Rory in 2013. Yeah, he’s about to be seven, so six years.

Aimee Raupp:

Six years trying for Cole.

Kathy:

Yeah. Basically six years, and actually I… So, I’ll back up a little bit. So my son, my oldest is about to be seven. Before I had him I had a fairly early miscarriage, but at that point, it felt normal. That was within the range of normal. I have five sisters, several of them have had miscarriages. My mom had miscarriages, and molar pregnancies. So, I wasn’t defeated. It felt like a speed bump, it sucked. It was super sad. I didn’t know really what to do with that grief, but it still felt normal. It didn’t feel like something was wrong.

Kathy:

And, I pretty quickly got pregnant and had him. I had a relatively normal pregnancy, and all that. And then, after I had Rory, and we started trying around the time that he was a year old, I got pregnant very quickly. Let’s see, I’m just trying to make sure I get them all straight because sometimes I get it mixed up. So yeah, I got pregnant really quickly, but we found out after that loss of that baby had some chromosomal abnormalities. That was pretty devastating, because everybody just was, it’s age. That’s what, doctors were saying, “That’s age, that’s egg quality. That’s how it’s going to be-”

Aimee Raupp:

Because you’re 38, 39?

Kathy:

Let’s see. I’m 45. So, yeah. So, I was about 38, 39. But yeah, they said it was age, even though I’d had a perfectly normal pregnancy the year before. And then, at that point, I had the DNC, they said I needed to wait a little while before trying again. It wasn’t very long. It was a few months. I got pregnant again, really quickly. And, I went in to listen to the heartbeat, there should have been a heartbeat, I expected there to be a heartbeat, and there wasn’t a heartbeat, and that was so that was so traumatic. I was actually by myself too, because my husband had gotten called in to work, and we just expected it to be a normal appointment. And it was… That still stays with me.

Kathy:

And, it was really hard to have ultrasounds after that, or especially that initial appointment where you’re looking for a heartbeat. And then, I had some very early losses after that, very early. Didn’t even get to that appointment where you look for a heartbeat. So, after the fifth loss, the fourth in a row, I tried a round of IVF, and I just got a few follicles not a whole lot was growing. They gave me a ton of meds, a lot of stims, and those follicles were empty, and that was pretty devastating. Because again, it was like, “Your eggs are no good.” I remember saying this last year too, my doctor was like, “We can keep doing IVF, but it’s not going to make any difference. We can try different meds, it’s not going to make any difference.” He took away all-

Aimee Raupp:

Hope.

Kathy:

… the hope that I had, which is not okay.

Aimee Raupp:

Sucked. Yeah.

Kathy:

It did. So, that’s when I moved on, had other consults and realized that I kept hitting brick walls. I mean, doctors didn’t want to work with me, the doctor that I found ended up saying, like, “You’re not a candidate for IVF right now.” Because to me, I thought IVF was the be-all end-all.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. It was a guarantee of the baby, which a lot of women think. Yeah.

Kathy:

Right. Which I didn’t understand, and it’s not. Especially for women with diminished ovarian reserve, because I only had one ovary, or women who maybe don’t have as many eggs, IVF is not always the way to go for you. Sometimes you just want to either do IUI, or get pregnant naturally. Sometimes that’s actually easier.

Aimee Raupp:

The better. Yeah.

Kathy:

Yeah. Let’s see. So yeah, by the time I came to the eCourse, I had seen so many specialists, I’d seen so many doctors, lots of different practitioners. I have a whole fertility library, but it’s all packed away because I don’t need any of it except for your books. I find-

Aimee Raupp:

And, the first time we talked I do remember, you hadn’t had… Who had done the clotting factor panel on you, or something like-

Kathy:

No one.

Aimee Raupp:

No one. I remember our first talk, and I remember you were in a… I think maybe you were at work, and you were in a hallway, or a stairwell, right? Weren’t you-

Kathy:

I was in a really gross windowless office.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. I would still remember it, and I remember saying to you, “So no one has done a miscarriage panel on you?” And at this point, she had been to five different specialists, and I was like, “What in the fuck is going on?” Anyway, you go on and tell that part. Yeah.

Kathy:

Yeah. I had your book, I have read it earlier. I didn’t realize that you had all these programs. I didn’t even realize you had a Facebook page. I wasn’t at all active on Facebook. And then, I saw a video that you did, and you were talking about tests for miscarriages, and I was like, “Wait a minute. What? This exists. This happens to other people.” And, that’s when I looked at your page, and I looked at your videos, and I contacted Beth, and I found out about the eCourse. Yeah. So, when I got to you, I was really, really broken, and really lost. And, this information, I mean I felt like I looked everywhere, and I was so exhausted by looking, and trying a million different things, and listening to a million different people.

Kathy:

So, the great thing about working with you is I could just focus on what you were saying, and my life suddenly became easier. Instead of feeling like I was all over the place and having to do so much, I could just trust the information that you were giving me and actually relax, which is what everybody loves to tell you to do. “You’re trying to get pregnant, just relax.” But, to a degree I could, because you had so much more information than my doctors had. So much more knowledge, and then you had the Eastern piece. And, I was super impressed, though, about how much you knew, and how much you know about the Western medicine piece, and IVF, and hormones, and just everything. So, that was huge for me, because before I was needing to talk to-

Aimee Raupp:

You get it together yourself.

Kathy:

… totally different people.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah.

Kathy:

So, you told me to go get these tests. And, we were talking about Braverman. I did a free consult with him. He’s obviously touched so many of us. So, I did a free consult with him, and I was all set to work with him, but then I found a local immunologist, a reproductive immunologist who took my insurance. Otherwise, I would have also worked with Dr. Braverman. So, I’m in the Midwest, and-

Aimee:

Yeah. Dr. Kwak-Kim, right? Dr. KK.

Kathy:

… he is in the Chicago area. And, that’s the other thing that I think that a lot of women on this journey need to realize is, oftentimes I felt like with being in the Midwest, and I have friends on the West Coast that have said this too, they feel like the East Coast, especially New York gets so much information first.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. Sure.

Kathy:

And, you’re our connection to that, and you’ve got this information as it comes in, and you give it to us. So, that-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. Because I see girls in the clinic, basically.

Kathy:

Yeah.

Aimee Raupp:

And I learn, and then I spread. Yeah.

Kathy:

Right. Exactly. You’ve got all the anecdotal info going. So yeah, August 2017, I joined the eCourse. And, it really changed my life. It changed my life then, and it kept on changing things for the better for me. So-

Aimee Raupp:

We put you on the purify plan, right? Was that right away, or no?

Kathy:

Well, you were writing Body Belief-

Aimee Raupp:

Body Belief at the time, right? Because it came out in 2018. Right.

Kathy:

But again, you gave us that information before the book was ever even written. You were like, “Here’s my first chapter, you guys.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah, I did.

Kathy:

… read this, do this.”

Aimee Raupp:

Don’t tell don’t tell Hay House that, but I did.

Kathy:

And, I remember that.

Aimee Raupp:

I remember that. I was like, “Here’s the PDF guys. Go read the book.” The diet stuff, because I was seeing it work clinically so well with a lot of these cases, these long standing… Whether there was miscarriages or not, but these long standing fertility challenge cases, and poor ovarian reserve, and just inflammation, and we’ll go back to that red flag symptom list, which we’ve been talking about in a lot of these lives, where you just see a lot of other health issues going on. Even if they seem minor to you, they’re not so minor to me. Yours was this skin stuff too, if I remember.

Kathy:

And, it seems really minor. Who doesn’t have a little-

Aimee Raupp:

And, look at her skin right now.

Kathy:

… skin problem going on their face? Well, I’m still using your stuff.

Aimee Raupp:

But yeah, your skin looks great. It’s the first thing I said to her. I was like, “Oh, my God, your skin looks amazing, Kathy.”

Kathy:

But yes, I did the diet-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. The fertility purify eating plan.

Kathy:

… and that helped so much.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah.

Kathy:

You guided me towards doing the testing with the immunologists. That was a huge key.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. Huge key.

Kathy:

And Aimee, after I had Cole, I kept thinking like, “What was it?” I just remember my mind kept wandering to, “What was all that? Oh my goodness, I can’t believe he’s here. How did we get here? And, what the heck was all that?” And, what my mind kept going back to was, it wasn’t just one thing, it was so many different things-

Aimee Raupp:

There was so many things.

Kathy:

… that needed to all come together. Because I came into the group, and I came to you feeling like there is something wrong with me. And, I had to change that piece too, I had to change that thinking. It’s not about what’s wrong with me, and I can’t let that statement, or mantra lead me. And-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. The, I’m broken piece.

Kathy:

Right. And, that was the other piece. When you’re on a journey for that long for anything, you can go to a dark place, you can go to a really sad and broken place. And, I had to get myself out of that, and the modules helped tremendously with that, and you and Beth, and all the other women. And, when I got into the group, I wasn’t in a place where I was opening up right away and sharing-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. You weren’t.

Kathy:

… but I did feel comfortable responding to others and supporting them. And after I did that, I was able to share more, and the more I was supporting others, I was like, “Okay. I can tell myself this too. I can reassure myself just like I’m reassuring one of the other ladies.” And, that was really huge. And yeah, it’s just such a change from August 2017 until now, and-

Aimee Raupp:

So, take us through the timeline. So, we did the fertility purify eating plan. I feel like you stopped trying for a bit. You put it on hold, or-

Kathy:

Well, the cyst put me on hold for a-

Aimee Raupp:

Oh, that’s right. The cysts.

Kathy:

Yeah.

Aimee Raupp:

Right.

Kathy:

So, we were trying some stim meds to see if maybe I could do some mini IVF, and anytime I did-

Aimee Raupp:

What was the meds? Was it Clomid, or was it an actual injectable? It was like a Follistim.

Kathy:

What’s the other one? I did-

Aimee Raupp:

[Donalef 00:22:33] or letrozole.

Kathy:

It was letrozole.

Aimee Raupp:

Letrozole.

Kathy:

Letrozole was on was my cyst maker. And, those cysts stuck around, but that was because I really feel like there was that emotional piece-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. You needed to-

Kathy:

… I wasn’t a physical piece, it wasn’t just a medical-

Aimee Raupp:

And, that’s-

Kathy:

I needed to work through some stuff to let-

Aimee Raupp:

The cysts are also from the emotional perspective, right? Even when I went through them after my miscarriage, it’s like that’s pent up anger and frustration, and I think grief, that needs to just… It needs to be literally processed. It’s formed in there. And yeah, I forgot about that. So, the cysts put you on hold for a couple months.

Kathy:

Right. And, that’s what was going on with my personality too, I was stuck. And, my cysts were literally making me stuck, and I had to work through the emotional piece. And, that’s such a huge part of the eCourse too, all the modules that have to do with the emotional piece, and that’s what I ended up doing with my coaching with you. I mean, I would come into office hours with 10 questions, and with, what vitamin, and-

Aimee Raupp:

CoQ10, and how much of this, and how much of that.

Kathy:

Yeah. All those technical questions because I was constantly at the doctor’s, because I had to see my immunologist, and then my OB, and my RE. So, I’d come to you with all that stuff, and then I did a couple coaching sessions with you. And for me, that was all the emotional stuff, and you were so helpful with that. Because as we know, this can put a strain on relationships. It puts a strain on yourself, and every relationship out there, so it was very necessary to work through. And, I could have brought that to the group too, and it would have been just fine. But I had gotten-

Aimee Raupp:

It felt safe, though.

Kathy:

Yeah.

Aimee Raupp:

And, not to overshare, but I was going through some similar stuff, I remember.

Kathy:

Yeah.

Aimee Raupp:

And, we broke it down together. As I was learning and unpacking I was like, “This tool, try this one, and then read this book.” And, you’re still the one that would come through in the eCourse and office hours, and people ask and you’re like, “Dance of Anger. That’s the book. You got to read it.” And, my therapist had made me read it or something, and I was like, “Kathy, you got to read this book.” And, I just remember it was like… And, Alexandra was saying that last night too, and I mean Courtney and Laura, everybody has implied it as well. But, as you do the work, the old stuff comes up, and we don’t even realize that’s playing a role. And, is it necessarily impacting the fertility? No, and we’re not saying that, but it’s coming up for a reason and should be looked at and worked out.

Aimee Raupp:

And, I do think because it’s putting you in the position to be the best mom, and the best partner, and all the things, the best daughter, and sister, all the things that we still want to continue to be in our lives as we grow and become mothers. And yeah, I just remember that was really profound, I feel like, the processing for you.

Kathy:

Yeah, it really was. And, I think that’s why I was still processing it even after I had Cole. It didn’t all stop. It was like I was trying to weed out, and I suppose I was just overthinking it, some of that postpartum anxiety of like, “What was the thing that did it?” And, it wasn’t. It was just a package-

Aimee Raupp:

It was a multitude.

Kathy:

Yeah.

Aimee Raupp:

Just like everyone, I think.

Kathy:

Yeah.

Aimee Raupp:

There’s just so… Yeah.

Kathy:

I was just looking at some of my notes here too, so I can keep the year straight. So yeah, I mean my issue at first was that I couldn’t stay pregnant, but then it became that I couldn’t get pregnant because I think I went a couple years without a positive pregnancy test after that, after I got into the group. That’s right. So, things had really changed for me, and that was a new chapter that was really hard for me, because before I was like, “Hey, I can get pregnant, I just need the support of staying pregnant.”

Kathy:

So, the diet was super key for me, the emotional piece, the immune piece, and it really all came together as I worked through the modules, and as… Like my CliffNotes for someone, for all of you that are going to join the eCourse, would be like, “Listen to all this stuff Aimee is saying. Really dive in and really do it, because it really works. And also, open up, open yourself up, and get in there and share. You don’t have to put your whole biography down until you’re, of course comfortable, but the more that you open up, the more you share.” I felt like that really fast tracked me. And, as I worked through the modules, I remember you saying, not just to me, but to all of us, like, “You’re in this, but you need to go live your life.”

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah.

Kathy:

And, I think that’s really important for people to hear like, “Yes, you’re diving into a course. Yes, you’re going to be doing some work here. You’re going to overhaul your lifestyle, but you still need to live your life.” And, I wasn’t, I was so-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. You were so frozen in time-

Kathy:

It was. I was so stuck. And then, I felt a lot of guilt about that, because I have a son, and I felt like I had a lot of mental energy preoccupation with getting pregnant again. So, that was just like-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. You felt guilty because you weren’t giving enough time to Rory. And, I remember-

Kathy:

Yeah. And, even though I probably was, I just know that I had all this mental space occupied with getting pregnant again, and then of course, all the appointments and all that, and I just wanted to move on with my life. And, once I hit the point of like, “You know what, yeah, that’s what I need to do.” I remember you saying that I needed to picture my life, as if… And, I think this was from a Story of Hope too, perhaps. Another conversation that you had with somebody else, and you were saying like, “Picture your life as it is now, and how can you be happy with it? Are you just going… If nothing were to change, would you just stay miserable, or become miserable? Or, would you be able to make peace with it? Make peace with where you’re at now?”

Kathy:

And, it finally hit home at some point, and I did. And I was like, “Okay. If this is my life, then I’ve got a lot to be grateful for.” That I need to stop feeling sorry for myself. I need to move on with my life, and live my life, and not neglect other relationships because that takes a toll. And, that’s when I got pregnant. And, it wasn’t because I stopped trying. I was still trying.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah, you were still trying.

Kathy:

I was doing all the things, I just had let go of the control. It is the surrender piece that you talk about. And so, it’s this really fine line between trying and doing all the things, and letting go a little bit.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. Why do I say in the course? Letting go doesn’t mean giving up.

Kathy:

Yes.

Aimee Raupp:

It just means trusting that you’re doing enough, and basically being in that prepared state to then receive when it comes to you. And so, we got through the cysts, I remember, and you were working through the emotional piece, and then you did do IUIs with Dr. KK, or with your doctor?

Kathy:

With my RE. So, Dr. KK does all of the testing.

Aimee Raupp:

The immunological, right?

Kathy:

Yeah. And then, I worked with an RE, who was great. And, that’s the other thing, I really did end up surrounding myself with people that believed in me in the group-

Aimee Raupp:

Believed in you. Yeah.

Kathy:

… but also practitioners. And, even if you can’t find that, that’s okay, because you’re going to build enough confidence where you can look at these doctors that tell you that you’re too old and you’re like, “That’s okay that you’re saying that to me, because I know I’m not.”

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. And, the literature. It’s social proof in this group that I’m in, or these other women. Yeah.

Kathy:

Exactly. So yeah, letrozole didn’t work, so we were like, “Okay. Let’s back off on the meds. Let’s try some timed intercourse and IUIs.” And, we just did one IUI. I know a lot of girls are able to do them back to back, but I wasn’t.

Aimee Raupp:

Oh, you mean one insemination in that IUI. Yeah.

Kathy:

Exactly. And-

Aimee Raupp:

And, you also did some timed intercourse at home, so we’re not sure-

Kathy:

A lot.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah.

Kathy:

Okay. Every 12 hours and we were like, “Okay.” Yeah.

Aimee Raupp:

And, it worked.

Kathy:

Yeah. I think they were like, “Every 8:00 to 12:00 do whatever you can.” And, next-

Aimee Raupp:

So, we’re not sure. That’s what we wrote naturally, but she also did do an IUI in that cycle.

Kathy:

[crosstalk 00:32:15].

Aimee Raupp:

So either or. she got pregnant somewhere in that mix. And then, you stayed on the diet, and then the immune meds. So, your doctor came in, and you did a blood thinner, and some steroids, and-

Kathy:

I did.

Aimee Raupp:

… IVIG.

Kathy:

I did the usual protocol of letrozole, some pred. I did do an AGHG shot.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah.

Kathy:

Or wait-

Aimee Raupp:

HGH.

Kathy:

Not, human growth hormone the-

Aimee Raupp:

The drill.

Kathy:

Yes. The pregnancy hormone.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. Oh, right. The-

Kathy:

Like a booster shot.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. A booster shot.

Kathy:

They felt like that could be helpful too. So, all of these lots of little things. I was open to whatever. I just felt like I was in a place of trust. And, it was never… I don’t think I was ever relaxed throughout my entire pregnancy. I mean, with my history, how could I be? So, it was really rough, and that’s when I would go to the group, and get the support that I needed, but also I had all these tools to use that you had taught us. To manage stress, to manage anxiety, to stay open, to stay hopeful, and to connect with my baby. And, that was probably one of the most powerful things that I learned from you, was the whole spirit baby piece, and connecting with babies, and bringing them in. Because that was something that I had felt such a connection with my son before he was born, but I didn’t have I didn’t have words for it, and you recommended the book Spirit Babies, and I’m really connected with it a lot.

Kathy:

And, just communicating with my baby, and inviting baby in, and inviting baby to stay was so huge. And, I had never meditated really before until you had done guided meditations with us, and I got to the point where I was meditating on my own, and visualizing my baby. And yeah, it was really beautiful. I always thought that I was having a girl. I knew that the pregnancy with the chromosomal abnormality was a girl, and I always felt like she was coming back to me. And, when with those subsequent pregnancies after, I felt like I felt her presence.

Kathy:

And then with this last pregnancy with my son, she always had this really intense energy I would see, and I saw her, and there was always this little boy attached to her that was super shy, like around her leg, so I thought, “Am I having boy girl twins. It’s okay. I’ll take twins. I’ll take whatever you want to give me.” And, I saw this vision of her passing him over to me, and I didn’t quite trust it at first, because I thought like, “This baby does not look like it could be my baby, and I feel like I’m having a girl.” And, it was this adorable, chubby little cherub, and it looks exactly like-

Aimee Raupp:

Like Cole.

Kathy:

… the son that I have. It’s wild. Just right down to each rule. And, I remember thinking-

Aimee Raupp:

And, that was in your visualizations, you would see that, the mediations? Yeah.

Kathy:

It was. And, I would not have… I don’t even know if I would have been able to connect like that had I not gone through the eCourse. But, it put me in a place where I could trust, where I could trust what I was feeling, what I was seeing, what I was doing, and I could trust my baby, and I knew my baby was coming. And yeah, it was so amazing. I still will look at him sometimes, and just go, “Oh my gosh, this was you this was you.” Yeah. And, he was right there, he just needed some time, and he needed things to be ready for him.

Aimee: Raupp:

Yeah. And he came through.

Kathy:

Yeah. But, that was amazing.

Aimee Raupp:

This is amazing. I love this.

Kathy:

So, I got so much out of the course, and I continue to.

Aimee Raupp:

Do you remember what your AMH, or FSH was when you did [inaudible 00:36:54].

Kathy:

[crosstalk 00:36:54]. Yeah. I remember the doctors kept saying it. So, my AMH, this was right before I came to you too, my AMH was .014, and I was getting pregnant around that time, .014. And, I know at some point that it increased by 10%.

Aimee Raupp:

It went up, I remember that. Yeah.

Kathy:

Yeah. It was at least 10%, and then we just stopped checking and stopped caring.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. We stopped caring.

Kathy:

Because it didn’t matter. And, I know why FSH went at least as high as a 19, because that was one of the doctors cut offs. And, he was just like, “I’m not working with you, because you’ve had an FSH of 19 in the past.”

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. And then, to go and have a baby naturally/IUI at 44, and have him be perfect.

Kathy:

Yeah. There’s one thing that I know I went back to a group and shared, because I wanted them to know, that not to worry so much about age, because that comes up a lot.

Aimee Raupp:

All the time.

Kathy:

Especially with new women entering. So-

Aimee Raupp:

And, regardless of their age, it comes up. They could be 38, they could be 47, it doesn’t matter, they’re worried about their age. 25, they’re worried about their age.

Kathy:

So, after I had Cole, I went for my six-week post check to my OB, and then I also went to Dr. Kwak-Kim’s office for some blood work and such. And, I remember saying to the group, “I want all of you to know that I’m going to be 45 in six months, and the doctors want to know if I want a third.” And I said to my doctor-

Aimee Raupp:

I remember that.

Kathy Pollard:

Yeah. And, I said to my doctor, I was like, “I feel complete now. I feel content.” And, I always thought that I wanted three or four, but the way things have gone I’m very content with my two. And I said, “But, I’m really flattered and glad to hear that you think it’s possible for me?” And, he looked at me and he said, “Of course it’s possible. Anything’s possible.” And yeah, that’s-

Aimee Raupp:

[inaudible 00:39:15].

Kathy:

He’s so wonderful. And said, “You’re only as old as you feel. If you feel like you can have a baby, you can have a baby at whatever age.” And, Dr. Kwak-Kim’s office of the same thing. I said, “So, you feel like I could, even though you worked with me for so long?” And they said, “Absolutely. We just want to know, so that we can get started as soon as possible if you want a third.” So, it’s all possible. It’s all possible. The key is that-

Aimee Raupp:

That you believe.

Kathy:

… believe in yourself. And, sometimes it’s hard to believe in yourself, so go someplace where everybody else believes in you. So, the eCourse is the perfect place for that.

Aimee Raupp:

And, it’s like, you don’t have to believe in yourself all the time either. But-

Kathy:

Yeah- [crosstalk 00:40:00].

Aimee Raupp:

… yeah, it is. It’s nice to have others cheering you on when you can’t pick yourself up.

Kathy:

Yes. And, I needed that when I was pregnant also.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah, you were scared. You had every right to be scared. And, I remember that conversation I was having with you, I was like “Kathy, every right to be scared. Every right right now to be paranoid-

Kathy:

Dramatic.

Aimee Raupp:

… but you’re here.” And so, I’ve one of the girls in the group who’s newly pregnant right now at 45. And, they did a bunch of IUI that didn’t work, and we’re thinking about IVF, and she had cyst. This is so funny, actually. She had a cyst, the IUI got delayed, and she didn’t ovulate till cycle day 27 because of the cyst, and she was like, “Oh, we just had the fun like fuck it sex, because I’m not going to get pregnant because cycle day 26 ovulation. What the hell.” And so anyway, everything looks good so far, I mean she only had her third beta so far, but she messaged me, and she’s like, “I’m freaking paranoid. I’m freaking out.” Because her other two children that she’s had, she had like late 30s, early 40s. They required fertility treatments, basically. So, to get naturally pregnant at 45, she’s just blown away.

Aimee Raupp:

But, same thing, I was like, “Listen, you have every right to be cautiously optimistic, to be scared, however you’re also exactly where you wanted to be. So, let yourself celebrate that just a little bit. You know what I mean? Let yourself be there.” And, that was the same conversation with you too, of like, “Yes, you have every right to be scared.” And, that’s the one thing I know, we talked about of, “Think of all the things you’re doing differently this time than with the previous pregnancies.” And, that’s a lot of what we do in the office hours too, is pointing that out.

Aimee Raupp:

I will often log in there, it’s like 36, 38, 40 questions, and they range from like, “So and so said I should take 600 milligrams CoQ10, should I be on 600 or 200?” And then, it’s like Kathy’s question of like, “I’m scared of another miscarriage. How can you talk me through it?” And, I’ll go on a rant about that. And then, the next question is, “How much an N-acetylcysteine?” Or, “Should I take alpha-lipoic acid?” Or, “I feel sick on bone broth, what else can I eat?” There is all sorts of questions, but always that space for the emotional. And yeah, I just remember supporting you through it, and everybody else. And, even the girls that weren’t yet pregnant in the group just cheering you on, watching you get past those milestones was just so amazing.

Kathy:

Yeah. And, that that was incredible, and that’s such a shift for I think a lot of us too, some of us come into the group feeling like, of course we’re happy for those around us that get pregnant, but sometimes that can be really hard. And, that was the safe place that you could go and say, “I’m super happy for my friend, but it’s hard because I want to be where she is.” And, it was that safe place to go with that information. Or, just the reminder of like… I loved what Courtney said the other night about, “You don’t have to be perfect.” And that was such a-

Aimee Raupp:

And, this can still work.

Kathy:

… a good [crosstalk 00:43:07], it is so true.

Aimee Raupp:

It’s so true.

Kathy:

And, I got pregnant, and nothing ever got perfect for me either in the sense of like my cycle. For that IUI I remember I was ovulating on day seven or eight.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. That was early.

Kathy :

Yeah. And, I just had to go in and do it, and it was fine.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. It worked.

Kathy:

And-

Aimee Raupp:

That’s what I’m learning to with you using the UVA now. I mean, we didn’t have that then, but I’m seeing that with these girls where some ovulate right on that 14, 15, 16 window. It’s perfect ovulation. Some are ovulating on 10, some are ovulating on 22, and they’re all bringing home pregnancies. It’s fascinating to me, because that’s not how we’re trained either. You got to get your cycle to regulate, and then… Obviously for me, I look for, I want less cramping, and less pain, and the color of the blood, and the bleeding, and I want to see cervical mucus when you ovulate, and not so adhere to these 28 day rules, if you will. But yeah, there’s imperfections all around. That’s the biggest thing we’re learning. That there’s no right way to get pregnant, if you will.

Kathy:

Right. And, I don’t know why I still, I guess because it was the end goal for me, but I was naïve in part of me thinking, “After I have this baby, everything will be okay.” And, that’s what I was talking to you about earlier when we came on. I was still working through some of the trauma, and a lot of it was coming up because it was allowed to, now. I had my baby-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. In this space.

Kathy:

… I could relax a part of my life that I had been working so hard at for so long, and that allowed a lot of it to bubble up. And so, it’s been really healing for me to hear all of these women talk this week. I thought that I was just tuning in to be supportive, but also so that I can hear all the details, maybe that I didn’t hear before. And, just because I’m so happy and excited for them, and it’s a wonderful group and a wonderful place to be, and I don’t want to leave even though I’m not going for number three, and I’m not going to leave, but-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. You’re not allowed to leave.

Kathy:

Yeah. It just comes back to that feeling of knowing you’re not alone. And, I’m really lucky, I have such a supportive family, husband, friends, coworkers, but you can’t always go to them and say, “Hey, this is what’s going on with my fertility journey today.” And, I didn’t feel good about doing that, but I felt great about bringing it to the group because we were-

Aimee Raupp:

Safe. Yeah.

Kathy:

… all going through it, and we were all there to help each other. That’s the other thing. I mean, no matter what time you post, something, somebody else is always around and able to help, so that was amazing. And, being able to relax, because the information was coming to me, instead of me having to go find it. That was so exhausting, and it wasn’t correct information anyway, and it wasn’t individualized.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. To decipher through is just such overwhelm. It’s such overwhelm. But, to have one person you can come to… And, you know that too of, in the group it’ll be like, “Oh, I read this in this book.” Or, “I listened to this expert, and this is what they said.” And then, I help you guys figure it out, and decipher like, “Is that for you? Is it not for you?” Because that’s the other thing too, with writing books, you have to be general, you just have to be because you can’t reach every single… It’s just how we’re told we have to write too, you have to generalize because you’re talking to the general public, so then when you get the one-on-ones, you can really get more specific.

Aimee Raupp:

But yeah, just having it all in one place. And even when I get on those rants of like, “I don’t want you guys taking 80 supplements for egg quality. It’s not about that. We got to focus on diet. We got to focus on the mental emotional.” And, all of these things where I don’t know that extra 200 milligrams of CoQ10 is what is going to make or break this pregnancy. Maybe. I don’t know. Maybe. Like you said, there’s a lot of different little variables that come into play. So, potentially. But, it’s more than just that.

Kathy:

Right. And then, as soon as I got pregnant, I was able to reach out to you and the group, and you were-

Aimee Raupp:

We held your hand through the whole thing. Yeah.

Kathy:

Exactly. You were able to tell me what to do, what not to do, what to stop taking, what to take more of-

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. The best

Kathy:

… all that good stuff. The staying pregnant piece was huge for me. And also, I mean it is such a roller coaster, and the ladies went through every up and down with me. I know I would post before I went into an appointment, or messaged someone and just say, “Okay. I’m really nervous about…” Because I was going every week. I had to go every week. They weren’t necessarily labeling me high risk, but I was high risk.

Aimee Raupp:

You were high risk.

Kathy:

They were like, “It took you a long time to get here. We need to keep you here.” So yeah, I mean I can’t say enough. And, I apologize if I’ve been all over the place, but-

Aimee Raupp:

No. I think it’s perfect.

Kathy:

… yeah, it just comes out of me, and I really could talk about it forever. I’m now that person who like if… I mean, I haven’t been to a party in a really long time to a very good reason.

Aimee Raupp:

Because of COVID. Yeah.

Kathy:

But, whenever I hear of someone with struggles, or I see something online, and maybe in old group that I was in before this, and I’ll get a notification, and someone talked about their struggles. I have to tell them about you, and about the eCourse, and I try to convince them like, “Please, please, just do this to help yourself.” There aren’t shortcuts, but this is the closest thing that you can get to a shortcut.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah.

Kathy:

And, it’s just-

Aimee Raupp:

Thank you for that compliment.

Kathy:

Yeah. I mean, it’s an investment in yourself, and it’s worth every penny. And, I haven’t stopped applying anything that you taught me. I mean, I’m just not taking all the supplements right now.

Aimee Raupp:

And, that’s okay. Yeah. And, we also have the new momma group, which you guys roll into, and you’re great at taking advantage of that, and even postpartum. We haven’t coached together in forever, but I was like, put you and [inaudible 00:50:06] through that. I mean, the support, I agree that, I still get to give you postpartum and it’s selfishly too. I mean, I’m not going to lie, I miss you guys when you get pregnant and go away. I get emotional thinking about it. So for me, the new momma group is so special, because I get to go in and check in, and everybody post their pictures of their baby. And then also, trials and tribulations of breastfeeding, or sleep, or whatever. Bitching and moaning but without bitching and moaning because everybody is so grateful. But, I love that new momma group for that reason, because I still get to keep my hands on you guys. I don’t know. It’s so great.

Kathy:

And, the support piece is so important there, but-

Aimee Raupp:

It’s smaller. It’s a smaller group, because a lot of women do just get pregnant and just move on, and that’s great, everybody’s different. But yeah, you guys, the 2017, 2018 crew, you guys have made the new momma group much more… There’s just a lot… I don’t know what it is. You guys got close in that group, and then… But, this is only the fourth year we’ve had the launch, so the eCourse is still fairly young, if you will. So, it’s transforming as we go on, and I love to see it. It used to be crickets in there, and now we got without stuff going on. I have to-

Kathy:

And, it’s all still so relevant. Especially all the emotional-

Aimee Raupp:

100%.

Kathy:

… all the emotional work. I mean, that has helped me so much in the postpartum months. But, also the practical stuff. I’ve had some stuff come up. I never had hard and dry autoimmune issues.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. You never did.

Kathy:

No. And, I’ve had some stuff come up postpartum, and just going back to Body Belief has really, really helped. And then, yeah, just working on that emotional piece, applying all the tools, and then going in for support.

Aimee Raupp:

Knowing you’re not alone. It’s okay.

Kathy:

Yeah. Exactly. It’s so important to be able to have that community, so it’s invaluable. It’s huge.

Aimee Raupp:

People are saying, “Thank you, Kathy. You’re always so sharing with your story and experience. It means so much.”

Kathy:

I forgot that people were watching.

Aimee Raupp:

I know. Whitney, “I love that. It doesn’t have to be perfect, and there is no right way. I approached getting pregnant like a math problem for a long time, and it isn’t. I love these stories.” “How do I become part of the group?” So, you can enroll right now. Enrollment is open, it closes tomorrow night. Beth just posted the link, it’s yesyoucangetpregnanteCourseineurope.com/yes. And then, I just saw the comment, but it disappeared. I wish I could see all these comments. Oh, this is what I did last time. I went in through here. Let me just see. I don’t want to miss anybody’s comments. And, I know Beth, you’re moderating.

Kathy:

If anyone has questions for me, about the course or anything else I’m more than happy to go back in, and answer your question.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. I feel like you did that last year, too. You’re so great.

Kathy:

Yeah. Well, I mean-

Aimee Raupp:

You see your-

Kathy:

I can’t say enough about it.

Aimee Raupp:

… school teachers side too. She’s an educator. Right?

Kathy:

Yeah. Exactly.

Aimee Raupp:

Let’s see. “Ultrasound PTSD is so real. Kathy, you look radiant.”

Kathy:

Thanks.

Aimee Raupp:

Let’s see.

Kathy:

It must be the lighting [crosstalk 00:53:38].

Aimee Raupp:

“Kathy was the trail blazer.” Yeah. The lighting is good though. “Connecting with babies after a loss is so hard, reading Spirit Babies right now I’m halfway through.” Good, Fallon. “I’m 32 and my doctors have told me it’s not possible. I don’t believe them.” Good.

Kathy:

[crosstalk 00:53:52].

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. Fallon was a scholarship winner, so we’re not going to give away a scholarship today, by the way. I don’t know. We’re going to… One more tomorrow, so you got to tune in tomorrow. I’m going to do a live fertility hot seat, so watch that on Instagram and ask me to pick you and you get a free 50-minute consult with me, and I think if I pick you too, there’s a high likelihood that you might get the scholarship. And then, I’m going to also come on live and share a couple more stories of hope from just seeing that people want to… Someone wants to see more IVF stories. We have plenty of them. Someone wants to see younger women, we got plenty of those. Whitney says, “Kathy is 44? I thought she was 36.” You see I told you-

Kathy:

[crosstalk 00:54:40].

Aimee Raupp:

… the body belief diet, and the Aimee raw beauty products, right?

Kathy:

Yeah. I’m 45 now. 45 and a half.

Aimee Raupp:

Oh my god, you guys.

Kathy:

I’ve lost track. Yeah. No. The diet actually really, really did help my skin, and it helped with everything. And then, if you haven’t already, check out Aimee’s beauty products, because they’re pretty awesome too. I told you I did facial cupping today.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. When we got on, I was like, “Kathy your skin? Tell me what’s up?” You look amazing.

Kathy:

I haven’t it for long, and-

Aimee Raupp:

And so, she did some facial cups [crosstalk 00:55:14].

Kathy:

… I needed some self-care.

Aimee Raupp:

Fallon asked, “How did you start doing the spirit baby visualizations, were they guided?”

Kathy:

So, there are some meditations in the book, but I feel like-

Aimee Raupp:

Oh, in the Spirit Baby book. Yeah.

Kathy:

Yeah, in the Spirit Baby book. But-

Aimee Raupp:

I’ve done those. I do those sometimes.

Kathy:

And, there are guided meditations in the eCourse. And then Aimee, sometimes would do some meditations in office hours too. But, those guided meditations in the eCourse, or really any of your courses.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. And, I just uploaded to… So, for this round for this eCourse, you guys actually are just going to get access to this Google Drive folder that I use all the time in the clinic. And it has, I think there’s 14 meditations in there, and I’m constantly adding meditation. So, it’s a great resource, because every meditation resonates with somebody different too. So yeah, that is a good place the Spirit Baby, or it’s just… I do a lot of the visualization in the meditations, and then you get the image and run with it, right?

Kathy:

Yeah. That’s basically what happened with me. For some reason, I could never… You know what it is, with the Spirit Baby book, it was too hard for me to read the page, and then go into the meditation.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. I know.

Kathy:

I couldn’t retain it, but I could listen to Aimee’s meditations and visualizations. And then, I would just continue meditating and visualizing after Aimee’s would stop. And, that’s really when it came to me. [crosstalk 00:56:47] amazing. It’s, it’s wild. I didn’t think that that vision could be my baby, because my oldest is a super skinny little guy, and this baby that I kept picturing was such a cute little chunky monkey, and you saw him, he is.

Aimee Raupp:

Yes.

Kathy:

It looks just like him.

Aimee Raupp:

He’s so sweet. I know.

Kathy:

Yeah.

Aimee Raupp:

I’m so happy for you. Well, I’m going to let you go and enjoy your Sunday, and I appreciate you so much. And, you guys also want to see Kathy’s story from last year too, and her pregnant belly last year, it’s up on the Facebook page as well. But, thank you so much too. I think this year is nice too. It’s a different perspective, a little further out, and seeing… And, I think now you’re really processing and digesting all of it, too.

Kathy:

I am. Yeah. And, I just really want to emphasize that, like I said, it’s an investment in yourself. The need for this course, and the support does not stop when you get that result for the pregnancy test.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. That’s a really great point.

Kathy :

It almost intensifies.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah.

Kathy:

For me, it really intensified because I needed to stay pregnant. And, you need a lot of support from other women too after you have a baby. So, it’s really a huge package, and it’s your entire life. And Aimee, when Beth reached out to me, and you reached out to me and asked about this, I said, “Anything for Beth and Aimee.” Because you guys, and all the ladies in the group have gotten me here.

Aimee Raupp:

We love you, Kathy. Yes.

Kathy:

[inaudible 00:58:26] my baby, so I love you-

Aimee Raupp:

I love you so much. Okay.

Kathy:

So, always eternally grateful.

Aimee Raupp:

Same.

Kathy:

And, all ladies too. I love you.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah. It’s a crew. We’re crew. I know. It’s so exciting too to see what this new year brings, and who brings it in. It’s just so cool to watch it transform. It definitely has a life-

Kathy:

It is.

Aimee Raupp:

… of its own too. It’s fun.

Kathy:

Yeah. It’s a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Aimee Raupp:

Yeah, it’s good to be a part of it. Okay, my love.

Kathy:

Thank for giving so much of yourself to all of us, always.

Aimee Raupp:

It’s obviously my calling. I feel good about it. It doesn’t drain me. It feels really, really good. Really good. Yeah.

Kathy:

Well, thanks.

Aimee Raupp:

You’re welcome. All right. I love you. Have a great day. Bye, everybody. I’ll see you guys tomorrow, and there’ll be another scholarship tomorrow. Okay.

Kathy:

Cool.

Aimee Raupp:

All right. Bye.

End of Transcript

 

Aimee Raupp is a licensed herbalist, natural fertility expert and acupuncturist in NYC, offering natural fertility treatment, care & coaching solutions to women who want to get pregnant! Get pregnant fast with natural fertility care, Aimee’s online fertility shop & coaching solutions. Aimee Raupp has helped hundreds of women to get pregnant naturally! Aimee and her team are experts in Chinese Medicine, Massage & Eastern Nutrition! Get pregnant naturally, achieve optimal health & vitality, take control of your health! Aimee is excited to work with you at one of the Aimee Raupp Wellness Centers NYC. Aimee’s Fertility Coaching Program is a personal guidance along your fertility journey. If you are trying to get pregnant naturally, this program is for you! Aimee Raupp offers holistic, wellness and natural fertility books. Learn how to enhance your fertility and get pregnant naturally with Aimee’s cookbooks and diet guides! Shop Aimee Raupp’s natural fertility shop with online workshops, videos, consultation and coaching on fertility, meditation and healthy nutrition! Shop Aimee Raupp Beauty – Natural Hormone Balancing Skincare. Achieve natural hormone balancing with the Aimee Raupp Beauty Line of organic, gluten-free, dairy-free & cruelty-free skincare products! FREE US shipping! Natural Oils, Creams & Balms for Face And Body. Unbeatable anti-aging results! FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA Follow me on social media so you don’t miss these sessions live!

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